This makes me sad - to see how so many Christians have used Scripture to explain their hatred of homosexuals. Hating homosexuality and hating homosexuals are two totally different things. Although God's Word clearly states that it is a sin (just as premarital sex and orgies are, etc.), Jesus also loved all sinners. In our culture, tolerance for sin is viewed as unconditional love. I think this is a huge mistake. Jesus said we should "speak the truth in love". We can hate the sin, but love the person who struggles with it. If we tell people that acting on their temptations is ok and they should just embrace homosexuality, we are not helping or loving them at all. I have some gay friends, and although I love them very much, I will never "accept" their lifestyle.
I can tell you've had some bad experiences, and I'm very sorry. As far as speaking the truth in love, that is what the Lord says we must do. And just as homosexuals don't believe they are in the wrong, neither do most sinners/those who don't know the Lord and haven't had revelation of His love for them. It's true that far too many Christians don't associate with sinners, don't go where they are and love them where they are. There are a lot of hypocrites, which is why we can't base our beliefs about God on what we observe from human, imperfect Christians- we must look to Christ and His Word. You're right -I did just use Scripture to explain my hatred of homosexuality - but please hear my heart - I do not hate homosexuals as people, just their choices. As I mentioned, I am friends with some and they are wonderful kind-hearted people; I've heard their struggles. Wish I could make it out to that showing, but I'm out of town this week. Thanks for discussing with me, and I hope that nothing I've said sounds as though it's coming from someone angry and judgmental. I know it's hard to express things over the web, not in person.
what makes me more sad is the terribly delusional excuses for "moral" human beings, such as the doll who just posted before me. if im to understand you correctly...you don't condemn murderers, you merely condemn the gun or various weapon they used to kill? sin is the revolting awareness that you have of the world around you and the entitlement you put on in the morning because you think right and wrong is spelled out for you. you will never know what morality is or feel any sense of responsibility for the hatred and ignorance you have contributed to.
how can two people sharing love - be a sin- when there is so much violence, war, crime, hatred - so much sadness in the world- how can love- something so peaceful, so positive - be a sin?
in times like these, shouldn't we do all we can to celebrate love wherever it may be?
I will certainly post it if you'd like me to. It just wasn't relevant to my blog post, and there would be no context provided for any of my readers.
Again, please don't hear this in a condemning tone - I didn't intend to attack, but just wanted to have a dialogue about it with you. I am always open to hearing people's stories, thoughts, etc. You accuse me of condemnation, but in the Word it tells us to hold our brothers and sisters accountable and to confront them when they are walking in sin. I am not pretending to be God, because I am not without sin myself and only God knows others' hearts. But there ARE things that God clearly calls sin, are there not?. For someone to have feelings for another of the same sex is not a sin, but to act upon it is - as is mentioned multiple times in God's Word. I would be having the same conversation with someone engaged in premarital sex of any kind, drunkenness, all sorts of things. And I would hope another Christian would point out my sins in a loving way when they see them. If you no longer believe in the Bible as a whole (as opposed to parts), then it would be impossible to really have a conversation, because we won't be finding Truth from the same source.
I don't know you, but I can tell you what I am NOT thinking. I am not thinking that you are an awful person who is going to hell - THAT would be condemnation. My purpose in commenting was not to accuse or condemn, but to point to God's Word, the Truth, as He calls me to do. I am not trying to debate it with you, just to share my heart. But again, very hard to do through written communication.
To be honest, I could easily be offended by your accusations of Christians avoiding sinners, because I am a Christian and have many, many friends who are not believers in Christ (as do most of my Christian friends). And as I mentioned, I have a couple of gay friends that I love as well. But I understand that you're just stating what your experience has been.
It’s taken me a little longer to respond, because I really did want to pray about it more and study Scripture again. I really am interested in hearing your thoughts; my heart is genuinely saddened because I believe this is an issue that Christians have done a very poor job of communicating God’s love in. You said that you know God loves you, and I agree wholeheartedly! No matter what, He will never stop loving you and will never love you less or more based on your actions. But there are situations in all of our lives where He doesn’t love our behavior or choices we make when we sin. (I think it’s much like a parent that loves their child, but doesn’t agree with their behavior or times they are disobedient). This is why He talks so much of repentance – He is just as just as He is loving. I know you are saying that you cannot control your feelings, and I will not argue that with you, because I haven’t experienced what you have. All I can do is point to God’s Word. I watched that 2nd clip, but the thing that struck me was that his references were all from the Old Testament and related to civil laws and not moral ones. Homosexuality is again mentioned in the NT (even more than in the Old) and listed among other things considered moral sins, whereas Jesus repeals many of the civil laws mentioned in the OT. But please don’t envision me pointing a finger in your face, (because that couldn’t be further from my heart) – rather opening God’s Word and sharing what He’s said. I can’t pretend to understand your struggles or your feelings – I can only tell you what I know is true. I know that God sees you as the beautiful woman He created, and if He says a certain behavior is wrong, I know He can provide hope and grace to walk out of it and into His ways. I know He can destroy any obstacle keeping you from having intimate relationship with Him. He is good. I will pray for you – not because I feel sorry for you or I think of you in some disgraceful way – but because you said that your relationship with God has dwindled, and I know He does love you and wants relationship with you again. :)
6 comments:
This makes me sad - to see how so many Christians have used Scripture to explain their hatred of homosexuals. Hating homosexuality and hating homosexuals are two totally different things. Although God's Word clearly states that it is a sin (just as premarital sex and orgies are, etc.), Jesus also loved all sinners. In our culture, tolerance for sin is viewed as unconditional love. I think this is a huge mistake. Jesus said we should "speak the truth in love". We can hate the sin, but love the person who struggles with it. If we tell people that acting on their temptations is ok and they should just embrace homosexuality, we are not helping or loving them at all. I have some gay friends, and although I love them very much, I will never "accept" their lifestyle.
I can tell you've had some bad experiences, and I'm very sorry. As far as speaking the truth in love, that is what the Lord says we must do. And just as homosexuals don't believe they are in the wrong, neither do most sinners/those who don't know the Lord and haven't had revelation of His love for them. It's true that far too many Christians don't associate with sinners, don't go where they are and love them where they are. There are a lot of hypocrites, which is why we can't base our beliefs about God on what we observe from human, imperfect Christians- we must look to Christ and His Word. You're right -I did just use Scripture to explain my hatred of homosexuality - but please hear my heart - I do not hate homosexuals as people, just their choices. As I mentioned, I am friends with some and they are wonderful kind-hearted people; I've heard their struggles. Wish I could make it out to that showing, but I'm out of town this week. Thanks for discussing with me, and I hope that nothing I've said sounds as though it's coming from someone angry and judgmental. I know it's hard to express things over the web, not in person.
what makes me more sad is the terribly delusional excuses for "moral" human beings, such as the doll who just posted before me. if im to understand you correctly...you don't condemn murderers, you merely condemn the gun or various weapon they used to kill? sin is the revolting awareness that you have of the world around you and the entitlement you put on in the morning because you think right and wrong is spelled out for you. you will never know what morality is or feel any sense of responsibility for the hatred and ignorance you have contributed to.
how can two people sharing love - be a sin- when there is so much violence, war, crime, hatred - so much sadness in the world- how can love- something so peaceful, so positive - be a sin?
in times like these, shouldn't we do all we can to celebrate love wherever it may be?
I will certainly post it if you'd like me to. It just wasn't relevant to my blog post, and there would be no context provided for any of my readers.
Again, please don't hear this in a condemning tone - I didn't intend to attack, but just wanted to have a dialogue about it with you. I am always open to hearing people's stories, thoughts, etc. You accuse me of condemnation, but in the Word it tells us to hold our brothers and sisters accountable and to confront them when they are walking in sin. I am not pretending to be God, because I am not without sin myself and only God knows others' hearts. But there ARE things that God clearly calls sin, are there not?. For someone to have feelings for another of the same sex is not a sin, but to act upon it is - as is mentioned multiple times in God's Word. I would be having the same conversation with someone engaged in premarital sex of any kind, drunkenness, all sorts of things. And I would hope another Christian would point out my sins in a loving way when they see them. If you no longer believe in the Bible as a whole (as opposed to parts), then it would be impossible to really have a conversation, because we won't be finding Truth from the same source.
I don't know you, but I can tell you what I am NOT thinking. I am not thinking that you are an awful person who is going to hell - THAT would be condemnation. My purpose in commenting was not to accuse or condemn, but to point to God's Word, the Truth, as He calls me to do. I am not trying to debate it with you, just to share my heart. But again, very hard to do through written communication.
To be honest, I could easily be offended by your accusations of Christians avoiding sinners, because I am a Christian and have many, many friends who are not believers in Christ (as do most of my Christian friends). And as I mentioned, I have a couple of gay friends that I love as well. But I understand that you're just stating what your experience has been.
It’s taken me a little longer to respond, because I really did want to pray about it more and study Scripture again. I really am interested in hearing your thoughts; my heart is genuinely saddened because I believe this is an issue that Christians have done a very poor job of communicating God’s love in. You said that you know God loves you, and I agree wholeheartedly! No matter what, He will never stop loving you and will never love you less or more based on your actions. But there are situations in all of our lives where He doesn’t love our behavior or choices we make when we sin. (I think it’s much like a parent that loves their child, but doesn’t agree with their behavior or times they are disobedient). This is why He talks so much of repentance – He is just as just as He is loving. I know you are saying that you cannot control your feelings, and I will not argue that with you, because I haven’t experienced what you have. All I can do is point to God’s Word. I watched that 2nd clip, but the thing that struck me was that his references were all from the Old Testament and related to civil laws and not moral ones. Homosexuality is again mentioned in the NT (even more than in the Old) and listed among other things considered moral sins, whereas Jesus repeals many of the civil laws mentioned in the OT. But please don’t envision me pointing a finger in your face, (because that couldn’t be further from my heart) – rather opening God’s Word and sharing what He’s said. I can’t pretend to understand your struggles or your feelings – I can only tell you what I know is true. I know that God sees you as the beautiful woman He created, and if He says a certain behavior is wrong, I know He can provide hope and grace to walk out of it and into His ways. I know He can destroy any obstacle keeping you from having intimate relationship with Him. He is good. I will pray for you – not because I feel sorry for you or I think of you in some disgraceful way – but because you said that your relationship with God has dwindled, and I know He does love you and wants relationship with you again. :)
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